An Interview With Former Berklee President Roger Brown
Edited by Tavishi Nidadhavolu
Roger Brown is a man with a vision. With a diverse background in philanthropy, business, and the arts, Brown founded the Salt Lick Incubator to connect emerging musicians with the industry, offering them resources, mentorship, and performance opportunities to help them succeed. Before this initiative, he had an impressive seventeen-year tenure as President of Berklee College of Music, during which time he expanded the college’s curriculum, upgraded its facilities, and nurtured a new generation of influential artists and music professionals.
“We got a lot done. I think it’s a better place for the work we did. I’m proud of Berklee Online, which is the world’s largest online music school by orders of magnitude, the 160 building, the Berklee Valencia campus, Berklee NYC, Berklee Abu Dhabi, the merger with Boston Conservatory…we set up a bunch of institutes like the Berklee Popular Music Institute, Jazz and Gender Justice, Global Jazz, American Roots, the Berklee Indian Ensemble, which has made us famous in India…so I think we got a lot done. I got to know many students in the process, and I think I developed empathy for the journey’s beauty and challenges,” said Roger.
These accomplishments, along with his wealth of knowledge and experience, contributed to Berklee’s vibrancy and laid the groundwork for creating Salt Lick, a thriving artist incubator fostering artist development through mentorship, collaboration, and funding. The Berklee Music Business Journal had the chance to sit down with Roger and explore his experiences at Berklee, the evolution of Salt Lick, and his vision for the future of the music industry.
Q: Since stepping down as President of Berklee, how has your relationship with the industry and music evolved?
Roger: “The industry is sort of a necessary evil to have the art. I’m not one of those people who hates record labels or Spotify. I actually started and ran a business before Berklee, so I also understand the challenges there, and I admire people who can create successful, sustainable businesses. But what really motivates me is the music itself, and there are times when I think the industry can be really hard on the musician who’s trying to find their way. It can be exploitative. There are a lot of people who dangle shiny objects in front of young musicians and take their money or worse. So, you know, I’m just an observer in a way. Salt Lick is not really, in a sense, part of the industry. We’re a non-profit incubator helping young musicians. What we’re trying to do is prepare them for what they’re going to face. Not insulate them from the industry because, ultimately, they should be in the industry, and there are a lot of great people in the music business, and there are a lot of people who really want to help artists, and ultimately, I think a good record label, a good manager, a good agent, a good publisher can really be helpful. But it’s a very complicated world, which I can’t say I fully understand. I think it’s changing fast enough that even the people who understood it ten years ago don’t understand it now.”
Q: Is there a specific gap in the industry that you were trying to fill when you thought of the idea?
Roger: If there’s a gap we’re trying to fill, it’s that gap between getting your career started and something good happening. Someone discovers you on TikTok, you do a couple of shows, and they’re really popular, or you put something out on streaming platforms, and people start listening to it, so you’ve had a little bit of success, and so the world is saying, we like you, we want more of what you do…but you probably don’t have a manager yet, you don’t have an agent, you can’t really sell tickets to shows across the country or the world and you probably, definitely don’t have a label or anyone who’s given you an advance. You may not even have the resources to go into a legitimate recording studio, and you’re probably doing everything in a DIY way.
What we’re trying to do is identify artists at that stage who we think have really amazing potential and who we believe in and give them the tools they need, including grant money, so they can undertake a project and have a budget to spend on…studios, producers, session musicians, etc.
Our hypothesis is that the song is the single most important thing. If you look at a lot of popular music, it’s clearly not virtuosic musicianship or virtuosic voices that are the differentiator. It’s strong songs. We’re doing these writing camps so that our young emerging artists can write even better songs, challenge themselves to write more and learn to collaborate. Even if they choose to be solo writers, the process of collaborating is very instructive because you pick up tips from how other people write and think. We also have this radio show on Emerson Radio – WERS that promotes our emerging artists. We have our YouTube channel, which now has 15m+ views, where we put out a new emerging artist each week. So, we have a number of tools, all of which are designed to help this emerging artist find an audience and get to the point where they can get a manager, an agent, and a publishing deal. Essentially, we leave them in the hands of a team they can work with.
Q: So, what do you look for in these artists? What do you think stands out about the people you’re working with?
Roger: From the beginning, we felt like the most important thing is an artistic vision; some sense of who the person is as an artist and why anyone should care about them. We’re looking for an artist who can find a niche of people who are very drawn to them. Grace Gardner is a good example. They have an avid fan base and a lot of upside potential, really good songs, a beautiful voice, and, of course, a strong artistic identity.
One of the hazards of music school is that you learn to cover a lot of territory. You learn to sing and play in different styles, and you’re exposed to all these great musicians, which can sometimes make you lose your sense of who you are as an artist. But yes, number one is artistic vision. It is distinctive, powerful, and moving. Number two is the quality of songwriting and musicianship. Some successful people don’t have great musicianship, so they’re not the people we want to work with. There will always be people like that who, just for sheer charisma or beauty, people want to see or hear. But that’s not where we’re focused; we’re not focused on popular music, hip hop, pop country, or EDM. We’re focused on R&B, neo-soul, singer-songwriter, Americana, bluegrass, alt-country, and alt-folk – very authentic, distinctive types of music, usually very driven by songs, lyrics and vocals.
Our goal is to find people who can carve out a niche, make a sustainable six-figure income through making music, touring, and writing, and then sustain that for 20, 30…40 years. My argument is that music and art should come first, but then you have to figure out, given what you want to create, how you can make money from that, as opposed to ‘what’s the way to make the most money? How do I do that musically?’ Because I think the music world sees through that, and if you’re pandering, I’m not sure you’ll be successful. You’re more likely to succeed in doing what you love and believe in. And honestly, there is enough money to be made.
Q: Do you think this artistic vision can be developed, or is it something you believe intrinsically exists in the people you’re working with?
Roger: I don’t think you can manufacture it. In a way, I think it’s a Socratic know-thyself process of saying, “Who am I? What do I believe in? So do I believe it’s there?” I believe it’s there, but I also think that once you’ve gone through school and lots of different life experiences, you have to excavate it and figure out what it is. There’s this artist Corook, who represents an artist who knows exactly what their artistic vision is; it’s just so clear in the writing and the performance. Vince Lima, one of our other artists, had this interesting story; he told us that pre-COVID, he was trying all sorts of things and felt like he was trying to be something he was not. And then COVID happened, and he had to take a step back and look in the mirror, and he became much more honest and authentic in his writing, and that’s when his career really blossomed. I think everybody searches for an artistic identity. The person we would all say has the strongest artistic identity of the last hundred years is probably Bob Dylan. In the early days, he was just an imitator of other folk artists, especially Woody Guthrie. The Beatles were the same thing; they were basically a cover band in the beginning, and their writing caught up with who they were. I think they discovered their artistic identity early.
I think it’s something you have to work on and be committed to, and you have to be a little bit fearless… because if you present yourself as you are and the world rejects you, it’s harder than if you’re presenting, you know, some avatar of yourself. There’s undoubtedly some risk and vulnerability involved. I think that’s why a lot of people don’t take that step. Also, it’s totally legitimate to be a backup singer or an engineer or play in a cover band, where you’re doing all kinds of different music and using your diverse skills. There are people who make a good living doing that, and I applaud that, but that’s just a different skill set than being an artist. Being an artist is a different thing, and it requires you to, I think, really be in touch with the point of your artistry.
Q: Who’s on your team, and how are the people you work with helping these artists navigate this space?
Roger: It’s an interesting thing when you get to my phase of life, you look back, and you think, when I was successful, why was that? And if I’m totally honest, it’s usually not because of my skills, but because of the people who I’m connected with, who have extraordinary skills, and my strength has been rounding them up and getting them in one place and saying here’s what we’re going to go try to do. I don’t know if you’re familiar with The Wizard of Oz…my role in life is to be Dorothy, and I find the scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the lion, and we set off on our journey together.
Currently, the number one person at Salt Lick is Liza Levy, the President. Liza runs the day-to-day. She’s been at small and big indie labels and a big major label and has done all kinds of things, from marketing and release planning to tour management. She loves artists and music but is a little more hard-headed than I am. I like everybody and everything, so we balance each other out and make a really good team. We also have a director of operations who helps us get everyone paid, keeps the books, and helps hire the contractors we use for the Salt Lick Sessions and the radio show. And then we have a bunch of great interns who do a terrific job, way better than I ever imagined. Liza is really good at giving interns substantive work to do. For instance, we’ve got interns pitching our artists to be openers for artists with a similar fan base. We’ve been putting together little mini-tours like Sofar tours, etc. Our interns do real things that really help us, some have even gone out and road-managed tours, so they’ve been far more important than I imagined in amplifying what we do. There’s not many of us; we’re a small band of people, so they’ve been one of our secret weapons.
Q: What’s the best way for artists or other industry professionals to connect with you and your team to learn more about Salt Lick and get involved?
Roger: We have a good website explaining the grant application criteria and how to apply for Salt Lick Sessions. We also periodically post intern openings, usually on a semester-by-semester basis. We are also a nonprofit organization, and we’ve been fortunate to have some people give us money, so if someone is moved by what we do and wants to help artists, they can do that. We’re trying to challenge ourselves to do the same thing we tell our artists to do: hustle and work and experiment and be clear and authentic. It’s a good exercise for us to be on the journey with our artists.
If you’re an artist, industry professional, or music enthusiast interested in engaging with Salt Lick, there are numerous ways to participate. Whether you’re looking to apply for a grant, seek an internship, or support their mission, Salt Lick constantly seeks passionate individuals to join their journey.
For more information, visit their website, check out Salt Lick Sessions, and follow them on social media to stay informed about opportunities and upcoming projects.
